Talk:Sylvan (Titanian) - Revision history

Xiaou: New section: Chime In

2009-11-25T07:31:00Z

New section: Chime In

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:31, 25 November 2009
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	I'm done with this one for now. I may make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. I know I want to be sure the voiceset samples from the core game that I put in Fairy Common need to be in here too and this article could stand to have some formatting but this is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.		I'm done with this one for now. I may make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. I know I want to be sure the voiceset samples from the core game that I put in Fairy Common need to be in here too and this article could stand to have some formatting but this is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.

			== Chime In ==

			I would like to encourage anyone to make suggestions, point out mistakes and so on in the article by using this discussion page. This article in particular could really use some advice and suggestions on grammar and any pan-setting resources on "sylvan" to help with consistency.

Xiaou: /* Notes made while working on this */

2009-11-25T07:19:25Z

Notes made while working on this

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:19, 25 November 2009
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	Orl wrote that the name of the ~~la==== Misc Notes ====~~		Orl wrote that the name of the language of arcane magic on avlis is called Magya.
	~~:* The accent is always on the first sylable unless otherwise noted.~~
	~~:* Adjectives come after the nouns: friendly stranger gartha havera~~
	~~:* The preposition "from" is M', and it is used in much the same was as the word "the", Le'.nguage~~ of arcane magic on avlis is called Magya.
	and while he encouraged us to not develop this language it is similar to hebrew. The similarity of magya to nanshilae he gives as example is english - german. This makes me wonder which of these two languages would be most similar to spirit language. I assume nanshilae, while magya is sort of an adopted trade dialect. Kind of like leet speak. All wizards speak magya. The importance of the lineage of fey languages to magya is directly proportional to the importance of early spirit language derived languages like magya and nanshilae to the efficacy of fey magic.		and while he encouraged us to not develop this language it is similar to hebrew. The similarity of magya to nanshilae he gives as example is english - german. This makes me wonder which of these two languages would be most similar to spirit language. I assume nanshilae, while magya is sort of an adopted trade dialect. Kind of like leet speak. All wizards speak magya. The importance of the lineage of fey languages to magya is directly proportional to the importance of early spirit language derived languages like magya and nanshilae to the efficacy of fey magic.

Xiaou at 16:48, 23 November 2009

2009-11-23T16:48:33Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:48, 23 November 2009
Line 5:		Line 5:


	Orl wrote that the name of the ~~language~~ of arcane magic on avlis is called Magya.		Orl wrote that the name of the la==== Misc Notes ====
			:* The accent is always on the first sylable unless otherwise noted.
			:* Adjectives come after the nouns: friendly stranger gartha havera
			:* The preposition "from" is M', and it is used in much the same was as the word "the", Le'.nguage of arcane magic on avlis is called Magya.
	and while he encouraged us to not develop this language it is similar to hebrew. The similarity of magya to nanshilae he gives as example is english - german. This makes me wonder which of these two languages would be most similar to spirit language. I assume nanshilae, while magya is sort of an adopted trade dialect. Kind of like leet speak. All wizards speak magya. The importance of the lineage of fey languages to magya is directly proportional to the importance of early spirit language derived languages like magya and nanshilae to the efficacy of fey magic.		and while he encouraged us to not develop this language it is similar to hebrew. The similarity of magya to nanshilae he gives as example is english - german. This makes me wonder which of these two languages would be most similar to spirit language. I assume nanshilae, while magya is sort of an adopted trade dialect. Kind of like leet speak. All wizards speak magya. The importance of the lineage of fey languages to magya is directly proportional to the importance of early spirit language derived languages like magya and nanshilae to the efficacy of fey magic.

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	:* You do not (cannot) dance with us! You do not dance with us!		:* You do not (cannot) dance with us! You do not dance with us!
	:* We reject you forever!		:* We reject you forever!

			===Team Question and Answer Section===

			Lots of notes in this article. I guess I should make more differences to this material versus its source. A lot of changes had to be made because that language turned out to be a lot more arbitrary and incomplete than I first thought. I think it's appropriate for this language to most closely emulate a "standard" like you would find a very similar product in its place on Toril or Greyhawk but I don't think one exists. Making my own arbitrary changes to this article to distinguish it from its source is fine and all but I'd rather save that effort for it being useful and comprehensive. Since this language is going to be mostly unused as far as I can tell I'd rather let someone better at inventing a grammatical style than me take a crack at it. Thoughts?

	=== Done for now ===		=== Done for now ===

	I'm done with this one for now. I may make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. I know I want to be sure the voiceset samples from the core game that I put in Fairy Common need to be in here too and this article could stand to have some formatting but this is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.		I'm done with this one for now. I may make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. I know I want to be sure the voiceset samples from the core game that I put in Fairy Common need to be in here too and this article could stand to have some formatting but this is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.

Xiaou at 15:59, 23 November 2009

2009-11-23T15:59:56Z

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 The vocabulary list is not the primary source for this article. For now these are the LEAST desirable vocabulary words in the article. Those in the main body of the article should take priority. It is important to note that most of this work is copied from the vast amount of work done here: http://www.elftown.com/_Sylvan  Everything else is place holders yanked from Tolkein elven until I can get a consistent sense of the style the people at elftown have undertaken so that I can then modify it with some consistency to reflect the influence nanshilae would have had on this language in our setting.
 === Done for now ===
 I'm done with this one for now. I may make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. I know I want to be sure the voiceset samples from the core game that I put in Fairy Common need to be in here too and this article could stand to have some formatting but this is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.

Xiaou at 15:37, 23 November 2009

2009-11-23T15:37:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:37, 23 November 2009
Line 1:		Line 1:
			===Notes made while working on this===

	some notes for general guidance on fey languages:		some notes for general guidance on fey languages:
	All of this is available on the avlis website seeking language and Orleron. The posts get interesting between 2003 and 2004.		All of this is available on the avlis website seeking language and Orleron. The posts get interesting between 2003 and 2004.
Line 28:		Line 30:
	=== Done for now ===		=== Done for now ===

	I'm done with this one for now. I~~'m say~~ make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. It could stand to have some formatting but ~~This~~ is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.		I'm done with this one for now. I may make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. I know I want to be sure the voiceset samples from the core game that I put in Fairy Common need to be in here too and this article could stand to have some formatting but this is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.

Xiaou at 21:31, 22 November 2009

2009-11-22T21:31:09Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:31, 22 November 2009
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	So I'll be pulling nymph off the wiki and probably using it for fairy common. Then its just a matter of implementing grammar and the community can build the vocabularies for the three languages.		So I'll be pulling nymph off the wiki and probably using it for fairy common. Then its just a matter of implementing grammar and the community can build the vocabularies for the three languages.

			This language I'm hoping will act as the Titanian variant of the sylvan language. After a fair bit of discussion and forum searching I've got a road map to go by. The language on this page will be largely unused IG outside perhaps of events involving the Titanian nobility and court yet will be a crucial basis of other fey languages on avlis. The other languages I am making are: Avlissian Sylvan (The language of centaurs, druids and all sentient forest beings if they have the leftover INT to learn it) and Fairy Common (the language all fey speak after their racial language).

			Titanian sylvan will probably only be used in game as the language of the Titanian nobility and the titanian court so I won't be messing too much with its vocabulary or grammar and it may never be comprehensive. From a game mechanics perspective it will be the language the titanian subrace languages will be derived from. Any other likely speakers of this will probably be selecting one of the other languages instead. Opinions welcome in the discussion area. I just put all this out here so it wouldn't be missed. (xiaou)

			The vocabulary list is not the primary source for this article. For now these are the LEAST desirable vocabulary words in the article. Those in the main body of the article should take priority. It is important to note that most of this work is copied from the vast amount of work done here: http://www.elftown.com/_Sylvan Everything else is place holders yanked from Tolkein elven until I can get a consistent sense of the style the people at elftown have undertaken so that I can then modify it with some consistency to reflect the influence nanshilae would have had on this language in our setting.

			=== Done for now ===

			I'm done with this one for now. I'm say make a few small bridges to nanshilae like grammar and alter the vocabulary a bit and this is as useful as we are likely to ever need on any scale. It could stand to have some formatting but This is probably more than adequate for our purposes for now. Cheers.

Xiaou: New page: some notes for general guidance on fey languages: All of this is available on the avlis website seeking language and Orleron. The posts get interesting between 2003 and 2004. Orl wrote t...

2009-11-19T21:39:12Z

New page: some notes for general guidance on fey languages: All of this is available on the avlis website seeking language and Orleron. The posts get interesting between 2003 and 2004. Orl wrote t...

New page

some notes for general guidance on fey languages:
All of this is available on the avlis website seeking language and Orleron. The posts get interesting between 2003 and 2004.

Orl wrote that the name of the language of arcane magic on avlis is called Magya.
and while he encouraged us to not develop this language it is similar to hebrew. The similarity of magya to nanshilae he gives as example is english - german. This makes me wonder which of these two languages would be most similar to spirit language. I assume nanshilae, while magya is sort of an adopted trade dialect. Kind of like leet speak. All wizards speak magya. The importance of the lineage of fey languages to magya is directly proportional to the importance of early spirit language derived languages like magya and nanshilae to the efficacy of fey magic.

Spirit language is a dead language and is the precursor to elven and other languages ( I assume here we mean just Magya)

All languages in the avlissian family of "spirit" languages have to follow hebrew/nanshilae grammar. Titanian however has no template. FR elven is out for this due to it being pre-empted by dragonari, Tolkein elven is a possibility to supplement whatever non-copyrighted work we can lift online because IMO titanian sylvan should be similar between all game worlds. However Orl has written that on avlis the language of her fey have changed somewhat.

Orl wrote: The language that fairies speak is common to all fairy races (both O'Ma and Titanian), and many of them speak the common tongue as well. In a lot of cases, common fairies can speak elven and sylvan languages too. O'Ma and Titania have different versions of sylvan, with O'Ma's version being derived from the same spirit language as elven, and thus related about as closely as sanskrit and german, which are both indo-european languages. Each race within both fairy races has its own dialect of sylvan, which is regarded as a separate language, and is about as close as Italian and Spanish. Centaurs on Avlis have their own mishmosh language which combines both Titanian and O'Ma sylvan.

This was written for entries of both Avlissian and Titanian fairies so fairy common clearly is widely used by ALL fey be they avlissian, Titanian, seelie or unseelie. That last sentence of Orleron quotes just defined what avlissian sylvan MUST be. Although its kind of illogical since O'Ma sylvan = Centaur which has been stated by Orleron elsewhere. I'm assuming this is a desire to blend a language into existence of avlissian elements and titanian elements and we can basically do that by using what we already have and letting the archivists unravel the path on their own. Avlissian Sylvan is hence dissimilar from nanshilae because it is derived from Nanshilae and Titanian Sylvan. This language of "O'Ma sylvan" in all likelihood seems like the exact same thing as "Avlissian Centaur" and "Avlissian Sylvan"

So there definitely is a fairy common, a titanian sylvan and an avlissian sylvan.

I think the way forward is clear. 1.)Make Avlissian sylvan based off the grammar of nanshilae but with words drawn from Titanian sylvan and nanshilae, only combine those words to make them more unweildy and ancient feeling. 2.)Make Titanian Sylvan based off whatever analogs for "sylvan" we can freely use with whatever grammar it comes with and fill in the blanks however we can devise a way to do this be it by using Tolkein elven or whatever. It won't be important since it will be largely unused. 3.) Don't develop or use fey subrace languages yet, having the foundation of them in place is good enough because we need those foundations to develop the ONE useful fey language: fairy common. This should bear resemblance to the words from the pixie toolset voice and titanian sylvan in vocabulary as well as avlissian sylvan, blending vocabulary rules from each. ALWAYS using the easier rule.

So I'll be pulling nymph off the wiki and probably using it for fairy common. Then its just a matter of implementing grammar and the community can build the vocabularies for the three languages.